Curse

Obama · Oct 28, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I rarely see one at all, just wondering if they are any good or not in AB.

moriz · Oct 28, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

they can be useful. problem is, many of their shouts and chants no longer work on non-party allies. some still do, but it's hard to tell exactly what those shouts and chants are.

with that said, paragons are very good DPS engines, capable of punching out warrior-like DPS from casting range. they just depend on whether if you have a dependable team or not.

Riotgear · Oct 28, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Paragons only have one real use in AB:
[skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill]

Leadership simply does not work well in 4-player teams, especially PUG teams with a tendency to fragment, so your skills all wind up being too expensive.

disaster422 · Oct 29, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

yeah, I've tried to use different elites in AB, but nothing seemed to work without me getting pwned by some SP Sin from nowhere. Fallback is about the only good thing, like riotgear said, for para's to use in AB because it gives a nice speed boost and some health on the top of that. Everything else=meh.

Lorinda · Oct 29, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

@ Riotgear. Dont forget [skill]godspeed[/skill] But then again you dont need a prim Paragon for that. And you need your monk to be bonder

Sometimes when it is beach i do use a para to camp the hill side.
They have the same problem as warriors, you need adrenaline to work good.

If you got a proper build they are fun to play and are a great support to the team. (if you fight in teamplay ofcourse..)

candyman_sb · Oct 29, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by disaster422

yeah, I've tried to use different elites in AB, but nothing seemed to work without me getting pwned by some SP Sin from nowhere. Fallback is about the only good thing, like riotgear said, for para's to use in AB because it gives a nice speed boost and some health on the top of that. Everything else=meh.

You won't get pawned by SP sins if you bring something do defend yourself like shield bash, soldiers defense etc.

Akimb0 · Oct 30, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Paragons really have it hard at the moment, nerf after nerf and total unlove from Anet have left them weakened. I'm running a Paragon for AB at the moment, some of the more useful skills are:

[skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill]
[skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill]
[skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill]
[skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill]

However I find 90% of the Paragon skills are worthless, too conditional, and not amazingly well thought through. They only have two Elite Spear attacks, and they're both poo, the other elites they have arn't too good either. The nerf on Aggressive Refrain was also crazy, -20 armour for 20 seconds, every time you renew it? PFFFFFFFTTTT. Another worthless skill. I actually came here to make a post about the total unlove for Paragons when I found this. I'm tempted to contact Anet with a petition to give Paragons some loving, since alongside Mesmers, they're very very very underplayed compared to any other class. In fact I see more Mesmers than I do Paragons.

What I'd like to see:

More elite skills that are useful outside of exclusive, micro-management PvE builds.
More useful normal skills, normal spear skills, Command skills, Motivation skills.....like most of the Paragon skills, they tend to be too condition specific.
One more pip of energy regeneration, Paragons have expensive skills, two I listed as being useful are 15 energy, and the Energy gain from Leadership just doesn't cut it.
Leadership should give a different bonus, like a buff on chant/shout length based on Leadership ranks.

I think that does it for now.....there's more but I can't think of anything specific right now.

moriz · Oct 30, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

even with the nerfs, paragons are still probably one of the most powerful profession in GW. they are currently underplayed in pve because scrubs don't know how to use them (which is an indication of the intelligence level in pve, since paragons are also the easiest character to play).

if you somehow cannot manage your energy, with leadership essentually acting as a huge energy battery, then you are doing it wrong. there's a reason why gvg paragons could (before the nerfs to watch yourself and go for the eyes. now they have to be smart about it like everyone else) spam 15 energy spells on recharge.

Akimb0 · Oct 30, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

However we're not talking PvE or GvG we're talking AB.

lyra_song · Oct 30, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

[skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] is poo!? Are you crazy?

Akimb0 · Oct 30, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

[skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] is poo!? Are you crazy?

I think it is, the extra damage is the only worthy thing.

[skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] + [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] is better than [skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] since it's not taking an elite slot, does essentially the same, and provides energy / team buff at the same time, plus the only condition is a critical hit ( 70%+ chance of that. ) while Cruel Spear needs someone standing still, which is too easy to get messed up in an AB.

moriz · Oct 30, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

run 4 paragons and 321 spike everything to death. you don't even need a character for defense, since paragons can handle all that themselves. bring four copies of fall back and you now have a permanent speedboost. or in other words, paragons are the most powerful spike templates in AB. it's just too bad that no one seems to realize this.

the game will always be balanced around gvg, simply because it's what this game is about.

Akimb0 · Oct 30, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

paragons are the most powerful spike templates in AB. it's just too bad that no one seems to realize this.

the game will always be balanced around gvg, simply because it's what this game is about.

Yeah I agree they definately have potential, I'd still like to see a few new skills/elites.

Turbobusa · Oct 30, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

bring rits with fall back, it just does the same with more spike power.
Paras in 4man areas.
I ran a paraspike to see what it is in AB, we wer having a hard time. Sure, there was like 50 SP sins on us, we were not extremely good players with paras, but we were getting ownedpretty hard, whereas with rits with fallback, we rip trough big groups while capping fast and being able to defend shrines.

para is a good secondary to take in AB for fall back, that's it.

moriz · Oct 30, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

you're doing it wrong.

Wakka · Oct 30, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Yea lol even the pressure of just normal attacks on a target should be enough to bring it down quickly.

Kyp Jade · Oct 30, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I ran four paragons in AB, and I wont disclose the build, you can figure that out on your own, but I will say 4 paragons dont have enough damage to 3-2-1 spike, you need to just c-space and things die on thier own in AB.

And only very rarely did someone on my team die, with the prebattle buffs applied everyone has free mending and +armor and ... things.
And why on earth would you need four copies of fall back?

I will say its slightly more skill intensive than most things you could take into AB, but the rewards are higher, you cap faster, kill easier, and can tank 4v12 (+ shrine NPCs if they have them) if you do things right.

Lorinda · Oct 30, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I can see the point of having 1 or 2 para's in an AB team, but 4?!? Quessing they are all in command/spear line there is no healing what so ever. Ok ok the 4/5 regen from Never surrender works, and the running around with Fall back.
But thats it.
I can not see 4 paragons with that build tank out 8-10 other people. Especially not with the new Aggressive refrain. Then your just a caster class tossing spears. The DPS may be good but its never enough to kill of 10 people really quickly.
Even with some Motivation para's in there, you can have all the DPS you ever wish for but killing a mob will not happen without some one dropping.

Quote:

they can be useful. problem is, many of their shouts and chants no longer work on non-party allies. some still do, but it's hard to tell exactly what those shouts and chants are.

Only some of the scouts work on allies. All of the chants dont seem to work.
These only work so far i know.
[skill]godspeed[/skill] [skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill]
[skill]"never give up!"[/skill] [skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill]

That are the only ones i tired and got responce from(teams that responded with Where did this came from?? spam skill, or friends in other teams)
Never give up shows all the allies that get energy, that is really easy to spot.

glountz · Oct 30, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda

I can see the point of having 1 or 2 para's in an AB team, but 4?!? Quessing they are all in command/spear line there is no healing what so ever. Ok ok the 4/5 regen from Never surrender works, and the running around with Fall back.
But thats it.
I can not see 4 paragons with that build tank out 8-10 other people. Especially not with the new Aggressive refrain. Then your just a caster class tossing spears. The DPS may be good but its never enough to kill of 10 people really quickly.
Even with some Motivation para's in there, you can have all the DPS you ever wish for but killing a mob will not happen without some one dropping.

Only some of the scouts work on allies. All of the chants dont seem to work.
These only work so far i know.
[skill]godspeed[/skill] [skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill]
[skill]"never give up!"[/skill] [skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill]

That are the only ones i tired and got responce from(teams that responded with Where did this came from?? spam skill, or friends in other teams)
Never give up shows all the allies that get energy, that is really easy to spot.

Motivation para, Tactics para, Command para, and third like you want (generally 2 paras with Expel Hexes).
Unlimited energy+cond free+hex free + big armor + big regen/health plus big ranged DPS = win.

Kyp Jade · Oct 30, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

glountz SHHHH, dont spoil it for me, and you dont need a tactics paragon, the only reason it works in AB is because there are no effective counters to paragons in that atmosphere,, now take it to TA or HA and you will get your face smashed in, but in AB you have absolutly nothing to worry about